{"id":1067,"date":"2016-11-21T13:21:18","date_gmt":"2016-11-21T18:21:18","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www2.law.temple.edu\/10q\/?p=1067"},"modified":"2016-11-21T13:21:18","modified_gmt":"2016-11-21T18:21:18","slug":"interview-provost-joanne-epps","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/law.temple.edu\/10q\/interview-provost-joanne-epps\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview with Provost JoAnne Epps"},"content":{"rendered":"

As readers of the 10-Q know, Temple University Provost JoAnne Epps has been a central figure at Temple Law School (indeed, the entire University) since she joined the Faculty in 1985. She became Dean in 2008, and this past summer became Provost of Temple University. On Wednesday, November 16, 2016, she was one of five inaugural members inducted into the Philadelphia Business Hall of Fame, along with John C. (\u201cJack\u201d) Bogle, Founder, Former Chairman, and CEO of the Vanguard Group; Joseph Neubauer, Former CEO of Aramark; Brian Roberts, Chairman & CEO of Comcast; and Ed Snider (posthumously), Former Chairman of Comcast Spectacor and Founder of the Philadelphia Flyers. Her other awards and honors are too numerous to summarize usefully.<\/p>\n

Provost Epps agreed to share with 10-Q readers lessons for business lawyers from her Deanship.<\/p>\n

Jonathan Lipson [JL]:<\/strong> You’ve recently been inducted into Philadelphia’s first Business Hall of Fame. Before turning to specific lessons for lawyers, do you have any general thoughts about keys to success for those in business, administration, etc?\u00a0Do you think there are a couple things you did (or refrained from doing) that significantly contributed to your success?<\/p>\n

JoAnne Epps [JE]:<\/strong>\u00a0I think a leader will be more successful if she puts the institution\u2019s success above her personal success. It\u2019s natural to want to be successful, but you can\u2019t have your eye on honors, awards or your next job, or you will not do well in your current position.\u00a0I also think it is important to learn how not to take things personally. This is not easy.\u00a0All of us care to some degree how we are perceived.\u00a0 In my generation, women, in particular, were raised to please others.\u00a0We must resist the temptation to take personally\u2014and seek to remediate\u2014criticism.\u00a0An effective leader won\u2019t always make the decision someone may have wanted, but you need to be able to explain your thought process.\u00a0If you can\u2019t, that\u2019s a sign that perhaps you came to the wrong decision\u2014or came to an appropriate decision for the wrong reason.\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n

An effective leader won\u2019t always make the decision someone may have wanted, but you need to be able to explain your thought process.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

JL:<\/strong> You became Dean shortly before the financial crisis of 2008 which, in turn, precipitated perhaps the greatest upheaval in legal education in several generations.\u00a0Business lawyers often have to deal with drastically changed conditions for their clients, and increasingly themselves.\u00a0How did these disruptions affect your deanship?\u00a0How did they change your plans, and what (if anything) do you think you will do going forward that may be different because of those experiences?<\/p>\n

JE:<\/strong> Well, the disruptions weren\u2019t fun.\u00a0 The job I assumed was not the job I thought I sought.\u00a0 For much of the 1990\u2019s and early 2000\u2019s, applications to law school were robust. That tuition revenue made possible innovative and creative ideas.\u00a0I presided over years and years of constriction.\u00a0This forced me to call on skills\u2014both fiscal and managerial\u2014that I hadn\u2019t anticipated.\u00a0This changed my agenda as dean: limiting innovative educational programming while ensuring that the core of our mission\u2014producing first-rate lawyers\u2014remained intact. I am pleased to think that we stayed true to our mission without sacrificing the enriching educational developments we feel our students deserve.<\/em><\/p>\n

JL:<\/strong> One of your signature accomplishments was creating the Compliance and Ethics Center<\/a>.\u00a0This is a novel and ambitious project, although consistent in many ways with Temple’s history of innovation (e.g., international study, experiential education). Business lawyers are often wary of “compliance,” assuming that it is a transaction cost that clients do not want to pay.\u00a0What can business lawyers do to develop and excel at corporate compliance practices? What sorts of things should students interested in compliance do?<\/p>\n

JE:<\/strong> When businesses think of compliance, they should think beyond the regulatory regime.\u00a0They should take the lead by thinking of both internal and external best practices.\u00a0Done well, such thinking should match pretty closely a reasonable and fair regulatory regime. Students interested in compliance work should talk to Jon Smollen, our new Center Director, to get an understanding of what a career in this area would look like.\u00a0In the brief time that our Center has been in existence, I have heard from a surprisingly large number of alumni who are (very happily) working in the field. They like the intellectual stimulation, the sense of purpose and the sense of impact on the activities of the business.<\/em><\/p>\n

JL:<\/strong> If there is one thing you could have done differently as Dean, what would that be, and why?<\/p>\n

JE:<\/strong> I would have spent more time, especially in the beginning, understanding my strengths and non-strengths. I always said that I didn\u2019t want a \u201cyes Ma\u2019am\u201d leadership team, and I didn\u2019t install one. But that is slightly different from recognizing one\u2019s non-strengths and ensuring that someone on the team fills the void.<\/em><\/p>\n

JL:<\/strong> Because you have often worked or interacted with general counsel and firm lawyers, what sorts of qualities impress you most?\u00a0What qualities do you think students would do well to avoid?<\/p>\n

JE:<\/strong> If you\u2019re not willing, on occasion, to put your work above your personal life, then go to medical school and become a dermatologist. Seriously, while I believe that, like work, devotion to personal life is important and that one\u2019s personal life has a place just like work, the most successful GCs and Firm lawyers are hungry.\u00a0They are fulfilled by the work they do.\u00a0In that way, it doesn\u2019t feel like work.\u00a0This is not to say that one needs to sacrifice or abandon one\u2019s family; that\u2019s not my point.\u00a0 But successful GCs and firm lawyers find enrichment in their work.\u00a0 Along with families, this sustains them.<\/em><\/p>\n

…\u00a0the most successful GCs and Firm lawyers are hungry.\u00a0They are fulfilled by the work they do.\u00a0In that way, it doesn\u2019t feel like work.<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

JL:<\/strong> Lawyers and academics are often gloomy about the future of lawyering, and business law is no exception.\u00a0While many dire predictions are plausible, if you were to make optimistic predictions, what would a positive future look like, for lawyers generally and business lawyers, in particular. Where do you think areas of growth will be?<\/p>\n

JE:<\/strong> If one believes that the only transactional question is \u201chow\u201d to do something, then the future of lawyers could be grim because artificial intelligence is poised to perform these tasks. But I believe, more now than ever, that our future will be defined, not just by \u201chow\u201d but by \u201cwhether\u201d, \u201cwhy\u201d,\u00a0and \u201cwhat if\u201d.\u00a0 I grew up as an Evidence scholar, living in a world where policy preferences outweighed logical inferences\u2014because of decisions about the world in which we wanted to live. \u00a0Computers may be able to \u201cdetermine\u201d the world in which we want to live (based on a range of input) but we are long way from the point, if ever, where they will be able to \u201cdecide\u201d in what sort of world we want to live. In that regard, lawyers will\u2014for a while\u2014be the ones to help businesses find the right \u201cfit\u201d in our world, as they will guide, and influence, \u201cdecisions\u201d.\u00a0So I think areas of growth will be in using technology and big data, at one end of the spectrum, to inform supremely human choices, at the other. Not to be too glib, but this seems like an apt analogy:\u00a0 All the data analytics in the world can tell you that the right decision is proposal for a long-term commitment, but in the end, the question is human.\u00a0Do you, or don\u2019t you, want to spend the rest of your life with this person?\u00a0No amount of compatibility analytics can answer that question.<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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